Speakers 10/11/08

[candlecat]

Hello,

I attended the PZ Myers and Richard Carrier lecture this past weekend at SMU.

Earlier this year, Robert and I listened to a lecture by Brain Dunning. First of all, I want to say that Brian Dunning set such a high standard in my own mind that perhaps others can not compare. He explained that his target audience was me and that he wanted to help me develop my critical thinking skills.

Next, I had trouble listening to the speakers this past weekend at SMU. It bothered me that Richard Carrier claimed that Jesus told his followers not to wash their hands (Mark 7) so obviously he didn't know anything about microbes. I felt that this was a flippant opinion of the scripture. The only meeting I attended at Fayetteville was one the one in March on the inconsistencies of the Bible. There was lack of interest in the subject matter on my part, but I gained the overall message that the Bible is not a science book and is not to be taken as absolute truth. Thank you. To me, it was like a Bible study with rationales and evidence.

Another thing that bothered me was that PZ Myers urged atheists to offend people. However, he made a valid point of how many of the states were substandard in science, including Arkansas. Well, yes, I evaluated my own schooling and although evolution was taught, it was downplayed and inadequate. Robert teaches me about evolution. So this is what I was thinking, I would like to hear how evolution is supposed to be taught in the classroom. PZ Myers, a professor of biology, could have explained it well. People could have brought knowledge out of that room to gain a better perspective in their own lives, be better educated to speak to school-age children, talk with their friends about it, ect. I believe I would have gained more from that meeting if it had a different approach than as the PZ Myers direct quote, "Religion is ridiculous". My ears heard, "Your religion is ridiculous".

Judy Madewell, a Christian.

[Doug]

DOUG writes:
Below are a few comments, Judy, on what you have written. First, let me commend you for seeking out other points of view and taking the time to listen to others that you know don't share your Christians worldview.

Next, I had trouble listening to the speakers this past weekend at SMU. It bothered me that Richard Carrier claimed that Jesus told his followers not to wash their hands (Mark 7) so obviously he didn't know anything about microbes. I felt that this was a flippant opinion of the scripture.

DOUG
It is. People didnt' wash their hands as a method of avoiding illness until the late 19th century or early 20th century. Even in hospitals, it was routine for a physician to go from patient to patient with dirty or bloody hands. One can hardly fault ancient Jewish leaders for not knowing any better--but then again if Jesus were divine, one wonders why he wouldn't know this. But on the other hand, Jesus wasn't giving out medical advice. He was talking about ritual, not hygiene, so I agree that it is not a very strong criticism of Jesus or the Bible.

The only meeting I attended at Fayetteville was one the one in March on the inconsistencies of the Bible. There was lack of interest in the subject matter on my part, but I gained the overall message that the Bible is not a science book and is not to be taken as absolute truth. Thank you. To me, it was like a Bible study with rationales and evidence.

DOUG
Fair enough. However, the reason we do that kind of "Bible study" in our meetings is not necessarily to convince people that the Bible has errors. Given our attendees, that would be preaching to the choir. For us, it is more important to give other freethinkers examples of these errors so that they are better equipped to give these examples if they are in a discussion with someone who believes that the Bible has no errors. And there are plenty of such people in Northwest Arkansas. (And Southern Missouri!) And for those who don't get into such discussions, or don't want to, it also helps freethinkers see that there is ample evidence to support their belief that the Bible is riddled with contradiction and error. Sometimes it's good to know that even if you don't remember the evidence, you know that you could get it if you need it. It shows that the belief that the Bible has errors is not just bias or bigotry, but the result of well-researched examination.

Another thing that bothered me was that PZ Myers urged atheists to offend people.

DOUG
Depending on what he meant, I might agree or disagree. If "offend people" means that we ought to stand up for what we believe and not just let people express bias or hatred against us, which many of us see quite often, then I would agree. And it is amazing how the same people who are so easily offended by the suggestion that Jesus was not God, or that the Bible has errors, have no qualms about saying that nonbelievers deserve to burn in hell, that we are wicked, that we cannot be true Americans, and other statements that are extremely offensive. Such people don't believe in the Golden Rule, apparently.

However, he made a valid point of how many of the states were substandard in science, including Arkansas. Well, yes, I evaluated my own schooling and although evolution was taught, it was downplayed and inadequate. Robert teaches me about evolution. So this is what I was thinking, I would like to hear how evolution is supposed to be taught in the classroom. PZ Myers, a professor of biology, could have explained it well. People could have brought knowledge out of that room to gain a better perspective in their own lives, be better educated to speak to school-age children, talk with their friends about it, ect. I believe I would have gained more from that meeting if it had a different approach than as the PZ Myers direct quote, "Religion is ridiculous". My ears heard, "Your religion is ridiculous".

Judy Madewell, a Christian.

DOUG
Yes, it may have been more beneficial for you to learn more about evolution and its relation to educational methods, and so on, but to be fair to PZ Myers, that topic might have been more appropriate for a room full of high school biology teachers or some other group.

[candlecat]

Doug, Thank you for your reply. I agree with you on all points. Although I might add that my primary motive is to support my husband. What I learn is a a side effect of that motive. Robert says that he will investigate throughly about which events would make a more positive impression on me. The reason I encourage Robert to attend such events is so that he has ample support of his beliefs and can grow. But, in turn, the side effect is strong, perhaps changing my primary motive. I sincerley enjoy listening to Brain Dunning's podcast and occasionally the Skeptic's Guide to the Universe for my own growth. And I am planning for us to attend the Amazing Meeting next summer. Do you think that the Amazing Meeting would be beneficial to me? Their website suggests that it is for a broader audience that would include me.
Judy

[Doug]

Do you think that the Amazing Meeting would be beneficial to me? Their website suggests that it is for a broader audience that would include me.
Judy

DOUG writes:
I think you would enjoy the Amazing Meeting. Not only are many of the lectures informative, but some of them are very entertaining as well.

Darrel and Tamara have attended one. I haven't, but I really want to go to the one in the summer of '09.

[Dardedar]

And I am planning for us to attend the Amazing Meeting next summer. Do you think that the Amazing Meeting would be beneficial to me?

DAR
Hello Judy. I can't imagine an intellectually curious and open minded person not enjoying in the Amazing Meeting immensely. It is an absolutely wonderful event! And there are topics of interest to almost everyone. And great magic. Who doesn't like a great magic show? It's really a critical thinking/Skeptics conference with a lot of fun and entertainment thrown in. If you find magazines like Skeptic and The Skeptical Inquirer of interest you will love it. Go to the Amazing Meeting when you can (and sooner the better because the Amazing One is getting old). You WILL NOT regret it.

D.