Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

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Doug
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Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by Doug »

DOUG writes:
A Muslim has taken the criteria I used in my What is Atheism? book regarding demonstration of prophecy and attempts to show that, on these criteria, some events predicted by the Holy Qur'an can be shown to be "quite genuine and true" cases of prophecy.

Here.

The criteria for distinguishing miraculous prophecy from phony prophecy or guesswork, from my book What is Atheism? A Short Introduction are:
1. The prophecy must be clear, and it must contain sufficient detail to make its fulfillment by a wide variety of possible events unlikely.

2. The event that can fulfill the prophecy must be unusual or unique.

3. The prophecy must be known to have been made before the event that is supposed to be its fulfillment.

4. The event foretold must not be of the sort that could be the result of an educated guess.

5. The event that fulfills the prophecy cannot be staged, or the relevant circumstances manipulated, by those aware of the prophecy in such a way as to intentionally cause the prophecy to be fulfilled.
The Islamic website claims that the following things from the modern era are prophesied in the Qur'an and that they meet my five criteria.

======================================

FINGER PRINTS
"Their skins will bear witness against them as to what they have been doing" (41:21)
The finger prints system at borders, criminal investigation cells and immigration centres prove the fulfillment of this Quranic prophecy.

POLLUTION
"Corruption has spread on land and sea because of what men’s hands have wrought" (30:42)
One of the interpretations of the above verse of the Holy Quran is the environmental pollution, caused by human being. And that is spread both in land and sea due to our own inventions, i.e., fumes from chimneys of factories, chemical and nuclear waste, huge traffic in the cities, noise and creation of ozone hole are manifest testimonies of the fulfillment of this prophecy.

ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL
And after him We said to the Children of Israel, 'Dwell Ye in the promised land; and when the time of the promise of the Latter Days come, We shall bring you together out of various people." (17:105)
Creation of Israel and gathering of Sephardic, Ashkenazi and the Jews of many other different races in Israel proves the authenticity of this prophecy and hence Quran.

GENETIC ENGINEERING
"They will alter Allah's creation." (4:120)
The holy Quran has prophesied the plastic surgery, genetic engineering and cloning in this short and concise sentence.

ROADS IN MOUNTAINS
"And when the mountains are made to move." (81:4)
Centuries before the invention of dynamite, the holy Quran prophesied the blowing up and moving of the mountains.

NEW TRANSPORT SYSTEMS
"And when the she-camels, ten months pregnant are abandoned." (81:5)
"And He has created horses and mules and asses that you may ride them, and as a source of beauty. And He will create what you do not yet know." (16:9)

As we know people, specially those living in deserts, have now abandoned camels and other animals for travelling. But this prophecy of invention and emergence of new transport systems is on-going as we witness new and faster modes of transportation emerging all the time.

ZOO
"And when the wild beasts are gathered together." (81:6)
Nobody could ever imagine that one day wild beasts shall be captured, tamed and put together in closed and open parks. The establishment of zoo have fulfilled this prophecy.

And others.

=========================
I wonder how many of these fail to meet some of my criteria...
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RobertMadewell
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Re: Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by RobertMadewell »

All of them except for maybe "ESTABLISHMENT OF ISRAEL" violate #1.

All of them violate #4.

I haven't looked up any of these verses to check context. If I did, I'm sure I'd find all kinds of problems. Please, nobody ask me to, because the Quran is probably the worst book written, ever! Really, I'm not joking.See for yourself.
Lo! the tree of Zaqqum,
The food of the sinner!
Like molten brass, it seetheth in their bellies
As the seething of boiling water.
(And it will be said): Take him and drag him to the midst of hell,
Then pour upon his head the torment of boiling water.
(Saying): Taste! Lo! thou wast forsooth the mighty, the noble!
Lo! this is that whereof ye used to doubt. 44:43-50
tmiller51
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Re: Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by tmiller51 »

"Lo! the tree of Zaqqum, ..." Are you sure that's not from a book of Vogon poetry?
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RobertMadewell
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Re: Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by RobertMadewell »

Yes, TMiller! It is.
My copy of The Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy wrote:As a matter of fact, all of the human holy books were included in The Complete Book of Poetry of The Vogons: Every poem ever written by a Vogon plus others inspired by them. It is said that the book is housed in a library on one of Vogons moons and that it is the only book in that library and that the library itself covers an entire continent. Ironically, the other continent on that moon houses the Vogon Plantetary Mental Hospital. There is a well used transport tunnel conecting the two institutions.
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Dardedar
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Re: Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by Dardedar »

Doug wrote:DOUG writes:
The criteria for distinguishing miraculous prophecy from phony prophecy or guesswork, from my book What is Atheism? A Short Introduction are:
1. The prophecy must be clear, and it must contain sufficient detail to make its fulfillment by a wide variety of possible events unlikely.

2. The event that can fulfill the prophecy must be unusual or unique.

3. The prophecy must be known to have been made before the event that is supposed to be its fulfillment.

4. The event foretold must not be of the sort that could be the result of an educated guess.

5. The event that fulfills the prophecy cannot be staged, or the relevant circumstances manipulated, by those aware of the prophecy in such a way as to intentionally cause the prophecy to be fulfilled.
DAR
I think you put this list of rules together (based on a similar list by Farrell Till) before we put our Bible Prophecy Reward tract together. I think the rules on the tract are a little better. For instance, see the all important #4 which knocks out most attempts before they even start:
Here are six rules...

1. Can you show you are properly interpreting the text in question?
2. Can you verify that the prophecy was made before the event?
3. Can you verify the prophecy was made long enough before the event that it couldn't have been easily guessed?
4. Can you show that the prophesied event actually happened?
5. Can you show that some group couldn't have purposefully caused or performed an action in order to appear to "fulfill" the prophecy?
6. Is the prophecy not mundane, obvious or likely to occur?
http://fayfreethinkers.com/tracts/bible ... ward.shtml
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Doug
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Re: Doug Krueger Used to Support Islam!

Post by Doug »

Darrel wrote: I think you put this list of rules together (based on a similar list by Farrell Till) before we put our Bible Prophecy Reward tract together. I think the rules on the tract are a little better.
DOUG
Yes, if I ever put out another edition of my book, I'll re-do that part for sure.
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