Belief in God

[Hogeye]

Even smart people can be ignorant or stupid in certain areas. Ignorance has to do with lack of access to truth; stupidity has to do with inability to grasp or acknowledge truth. "Supernatural god" is meant in Dawkin's sense, i.e. a god that communicates with men, cares what they do, chooses to affect earthly matters, etc.

[Hogeye]

Other suggested reasons for belief:

My mother opines that "irrational fear" is a major reason.
Also "mental illness."
One that I like, but overlaps ignorance/stupidity substantially, is "rational irrationality."

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Not going to vote until you come up with different options. Habit, Training, or Fear are good choices. Irrational fear is a value judgment, as are your original choices, and therefore not good choices for any valid poll. Also, define "god".

[Hogeye]

From the root post: "Supernatural god" is meant in Dawkin's sense.

Click the link to read the first chapter of Dawkin's "The God Delusion," wherein he differentiates between the Einsteinian "god" and a supernatural god.

In case you haven't noticed, some of us Freethinkers like to ridicule people who have irrational beliefs. E.g. the ridicule Hovind talk last meeting, the series of talks ridiculing the belief in alien UFOs, the ridiculing of creationists, and so on. I'll bet you would you have voted if the question was: 'Which word better describes Hovind's young earth view?'

[Dardedar]

DAR
Are we to believe that Hogeye's mother might have some first hand experience with mental illness?

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Hogeye - I might, but probably wouldn't have. I'm not particularly into ridiculing people. I'd be more inclined to call it a lack of logic or a mental defect prohibiting ability to connect evidence.

[Dardedar]

bet you would you have voted if the question was: 'Which word better describes Hovind's young earth view?'

DAR
The word for that would be dishonesty. Hovind is profoundly dishonest. This is why creationists that are more honest (Answer's In Genesis) recommend against using many of his arguments. Dave Matson, editor of my book, has written a book directly addressing all of Hovind's main arguments. Hovinds arguments are extremely foolish and his scholarship is so dishonest it is hard to believe he doesn't know this.

Dave Matson's debunk of Hovind's material can be read
here.

Many if not most believers in God are neither ignorant or stupid. A person's intelligence does not go up when they change from being a believer to a disbeliever in God. Perhaps their critical thinking skills do.

some of us Freethinkers like to ridicule people who have irrational beliefs

Yes we do. But especially if people are obnoxious about it, yelling at people on the street with mega phones or imposing their nonsense aggressively. Perhaps there is some concern about where ridicule of irrational beliefs might lead?

D.

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Darrel, I think you're right. It's critical thinking that brought me to the point of acknowledging I DON'T believe in all the stuff you have to believe to be a christian (resurrection, died for my sins, etc.), and therefore, I'm not one.

Hogeye, we aren't participating in your poll because your only choices are insulting. All of us know intelligent people who believe in the christian god. All of us know good people, trying to live a life caring for others as directed by jesus in matthew ("I hungered and ye fed me..."), and crediting their religion for those attempts. Atheists like Darrel and Doug, and deists like myself, disagree with their beliefs but that doesn't make them stupid or ignorant. If you had included "lacking in critical thinking skills" in your choices, I'd have voted for that.

[Dardedar]

DAR
A better word to answer the question:

"Which word better describes an educated adult's belief in a supernatural god?"

Comforting.

[Savonarola]

Every now and then, I have a brief conversation with a friend regarding this topic. Since most of my friends are Christian, a question that always seems to come up goes something like this: "So you think all Christians are stupid for believing in God?"
I decided the best reply was, "No, not stupid... just mistaken."

[Doug]

Since most of my friends are Christian, a question that always seems to come up goes something like this: "So you think all Christians are stupid for believing in God?"

DOUG
Another answer:
"So you think that all atheists are wicked for not believing in God?"

The answer better be "yes," or else nonwicked people are going to hell, which certainly smacks of injustice. On the other hand, if the answer is "yes," then one might inquire as to why not having a belief that something exists has some sort of moral import to it, as opposed to simply some run-of-the-mill nonmoral mistake.

[Savonarola]

DOUG
Another answer:
"So you think that all atheists are wicked for not believing in God?"

The answer better be "yes," or else nonwicked people are going to hell, which certainly smacks of injustice. On the other hand, if the answer is "yes," then one might inquire as to why not having a belief that something exists has some sort of moral import to it, as opposed to simply some run-of-the-mill nonmoral mistake.

One of my best friends from high school won't talk to me about it anymore, because it bothers him to no end that I'm going to hell, even though it's clear to him that I don't really belong there.
A friend from college has touched on the subject with me but won't go any deeper. She gets stuck; she can't understand how anyone can possibly not believe in God. In a fun game amongst friends, given the opportunity to ask me any three questions, she asked "do you REALLY believe that we (humans) weren't created by God?"

[Doug]

In a fun game amongst friends, given the opportunity to ask me any three questions, she asked "do you REALLY believe that we (humans) weren't created by God?"

DOUG
I've been a nonbeliever so long that to my ears that question sounds as bizarre as "do you REALLY believe that the gold standard wasn't created by leprechauns with their pots of gold?"

[Hogeye]

All of us know intelligent people who believe in the christian god. All of us know good people, trying to live a life caring for others... Atheists like Darrel and Doug, and deists like myself, disagree with their beliefs but that doesn't make them stupid or ignorant.

I don't think it makes those people stupid, but the fact remains that the beliefs are stupid. Intelligent people can have stupid beliefs. You may (or may not) have noticed that I refer to the beliefs, not the people holding them, as stupid. In another thread, I referred to certain actions, not people, as being stupid and immoral. (I.e. Selling yourself into slavery is stupid; murdering for ambitious politicians is immoral.)

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Darrel's got it on this. Belief in a supernatural "Daddy" or strong protector (of whatever form) is comforting in a scary world. The more paternalistic the family - and society - one is raised in, the more comforting a celestial father is. Of course, if you were raised in a family with an abusive father, you have no problem with an abusive god (which is fundie god most assured is). If you were raised in a family with an absent father, it's easier to move away from a societal belief in a personal god. The world didn't get any less scary, you just don't trust a god to be there/protect you.