Irony, anyone?

[WindFem3]

Two pieces in the Springfield News-Leader yesterday. One by Charles C. Haynes, senior scholar at the First Amendment Center. He is a regular contributor to op/ed pages. The second by some Missouri local named Clif Moudy, who lives in Lebanon. No further information on this brainiac. I was saddened to see how the second opinion perfectly illustrates the point Mr. Haynes so eloquently makes.

The sections in bold type are ones I highlighted.
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"Push for Christian Nation Misses the Point" (Charles Haynes)

Culture warriors loudly proclaim that Christianity is under siege in the United States: Christmas wars, Bible wars, school wars - all part of a great "war on Christians."

For a little perspective, try explaining this "war" to people like Father Douglas Yousef Al-Bazy, a Chaldean Catholic priest in Baghdad, Iraq.

Last month, Al-Bazy was kidnapped for nine days before being released (probably for ransom.) Earlier this year, his parish was hit by bomb attacks, and a month later he was shot at while pulling a pregnant woman to safety.

Despite all this, Father Al-Bazy refuses to leave his congregation. "It needs me more than ever," he said in a recent interview. "My life is in the hand of God."

But soon he may not have a flock left to serve. Iraqi Christians (who make up less than 3 percent of the population) are streaming out of the country, fleeing what many believe are targeted attacks against churches and Christian-owned businesses.

Meanwhile, Back in the Unites States, we are busy fighting a manufactured "war" over whether to say "Merry Christmas" or "happy holidays." One woman was so incensed by the absence of a creche in her school display that she has taken her grievance all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. (We're swtill waiting to see whether the justices take the case.)

This was the year that the "war on Christmas" was ratcheted up to become the "war on Christians" - most notably at a conference in March organized by some evangelical groups. Speaker after speaker expressed outrage at the widespread "persecution" of Christians in America.

Among the recent examples of anti-Christian attacks: a military chaplain said he was punished for offering sectarian prayers. An artist claimed he was barred from an art show because his paintings had religious themes.

It's easy to imagine Father Al-Bazy's reaction to these stories of "persecution": if this is all you suffer, count yourselves very blessed indeed.

Religious life in America has never been more robust, visible, and free than it is today. It's true that religous values now compete with secular trends, especially in popular culture. That makes our public square an increasingly crowded and often hostile arena where religion is sometimes unfairly excluded. But none of this adds up to religous persecution.

If you want to see what a real war on Christians looks like, just look around the globe.

Last month, to cite just one of countless examples, Chinese officials in Xinjiang province released four "unofficial" Christians from prison (in China, only Christians who are registered with the government may practice their faith.) According to human rights groups, they were tortured for 32 days.

Of course, it's not just Christians who suffer. According to the U.S. Commission on International Religious Freedom, the Chinese government is "responsible for pervasive and severe violations of religious freedom . . . every religious community in China is subject to serious restrictions, state control, and repression."

Move around the world, and the story is much the same: Baha'is are brutally harrassed and punished in Iran. Protestant, Buddhist, anbd other groups are discriminated against and often detained in Vietnam. Muslims and Christians are censored and attacked in Myanmar. And the list goes on and on in a world where religious freedom is in short supply.

By contrast, Christians in America never had it so good. Where else on Earth do Christians have more freedom to evangelize, organize, publish, and worship - all without government interference?

What really bothers some American evangelicals is not the lack of freedom, it's the loss of monopoly. Many of the conflicts in the so-called "war on Christians" appear to be about restoring the "good old days" when Protestant Christianity was semi-established as the national religion.

But pushing for a Christian nation will not advance Christianity - it will kill it. From China to Turkey to Europe, state involvement in religion is the root of persecution, dissension, and division.

Father Al-Bazy's problems won't end with the establishment of a Shiite nationa or a Sunni nation - or even a Christian nation - in Iraq. The war on Christians in that country and throughout the world will end only when governments commit to stay out of religion and guarantee freedom for safety for people of all faiths and none.

How ironic. At a time when some Christian leaders in America are decrying "separation of church and state," millions of Christians around the world are praying for it.
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"Contrived Holiday Needs Dose of Godly Principle" (Clif Moudy)

I write opinions and thoughts for a friend's Web site, and recently she asked me to write something about a memorable Christmas. As I started thinking about one that was more special that another, I was stumped.

What makes one any more memorable than another? I grew up poor, so most Christmas presents were things like shoes and clothes. Once I got a BB gun, and that was cool, but my best Christmas times have been when I gave something to a child or grandchild. This year I told my 13-year-old grandson that it was time for him to start being more concerned with what he could give to someone else than what he received himself. After he thought about it for a minute he said, Paw Paw, you're right.

Most Christians know that from all the Bible studies done, it has been shown that Jesus was probably not even born in winter. I know that the whole Christmas celebration is really a contrived holiday that was originally conceived to incorporate the pagans into a more modern God believe system that they could relate to, and not to celebrate the winter solstice. (HUH??? Hey, freethinking scholars - is this even remotely true?) For this reason, many hard-line Christians don't celebrate it at all.

I won't try and make it right or wrong, but when we have children bombarded with Santa, buy, elves, buy, reindeer, buy, it is hard to take that fantasy away from them. Having said that, I believe we should throw Santa down the chimney and have a truly Christ-inspired Christmas. Giving is a godly principle, especially when we give to those in need and expect nothing more in return than to see a happy face from receiving a treasured gift (but we'll take your soul, if it's all the same to you.) When we can give to a family in need and see the look of thankfulness and relief on the face of a prent or grandparent.

It is nice to have a happy time of year when the lights seem a little brighter and the Christmas songs of faith and happiness ring through on the radio and television, but the spirit of giving should continue throughout the year. Christ and our salvation is the most special gift we could ever hope for. We shouldn't be ashamed to proclaim it loud and clear, either. After all, Christians make up 75 percent of the American population. Why should we have to eliminate the wishes of the majority so that the remaining percentage of Americans don't have to see or hear it? Our country is based on majority rule. So if others don't like Christ and the message of hope and giving, they know how to turn off the radio and TV.

[Doug]

Most Christians know that from all the Bible studies done, it has been shown that Jesus was probably not even born in winter.

DOUG
"Probably" according to the mythical information in the Gospels. When Jesus was actually born will probably never be known even to the nearest five year margin.

Here's a website that spells out why many Christians don't believe that Jesus was born in winter.

See here.

Some of the information on the website is based on assumptions about the Bible that probably won't hold up well under scrutiny. One good point:

"the shepherds were in the fields (Luke 2:8-12). Shepherds were not in the fields in the winter time. They are in the fields early in March until early October. This would place Jesus' birth in the spring or early fall."

I know that the whole Christmas celebration is really a contrived holiday that was originally conceived to incorporate the pagans into a more modern God believe system that they could relate to, and not to celebrate the winter solstice. (HUH??? Hey, freethinking scholars - is this even remotely true?) For this reason, many hard-line Christians don't celebrate it at all.

DOUG
What happened was quite common in Christianity as it sought to squelch paganism and establish itself as the dominant religion. Christianity adopted a pagan holiday (as it did with Easter and other holidays) and declared it to be Christian. I tell my World Religions students that it is similar to when your bank gets bought out by a larger bank. You get a letter telling you that the name has changed but the services remain the same. It was pretty much the same thing with Christmas and Easter.

Apollonius of Tyana is another saviour of the 1st century CE who was said to be born on December 25th. Apparently there was a lot of that going around.

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

In the case of Easter (which the RCs named after the Saxon goddess of dawn in order to bring in the Saxon English), they wanted to get as far away from Judism as possible so they not only changed the name of it (from the pascal mystery), they changed the dating of it. While it continued to be a "moveable feast", they moved it away from it's biblical and jewish connection to passover and calculated the date as the first Sunday after the first full moon after the spring equinox. That was one of the major arguments between the Roman and the Irish churches. But then the better-educated but not as politically astute Irish didn't understand at the time was the Romans, in their power grab, had to distance christianity from judism to maintain that power grab. They were the ones who started the anti-semite, Jews killed Jesus, garbage that works so well to this very day. (And they certainly overcame the Irish church - so much for better education.)

[Tony]

Yeah this stuff is hilarious.
I was raised Catholic (In fact, most atheists I know, including myself, are former Catholics-hmm), so it's always funny to me to see Protestants and fundies so uptight about defending a calculated Catholic politically motivated preemptive decision. Not to mention a Catholic 'approved' Holy book.
As an atheist, does this joy I have at witness an essentially Catholic duping of Protestants belie some lingering resentment from my Catholic days?? I wonder.

[Barbara Fitzpatrick]

Tony - since, except for some Semite (Copts for example) Middle Eastern/North African Christian sects, catholicism came first (before protestants - there were/are a number of "catholic" churches out there, which figures since the word itself means universal), I don't know if you can call it catholic duping of protestants. I was only catholic during my 30s (and had basically recovered by my 40th birthday), but I was married to a catholic during my 20s and I promised to raise my kids catholic. You won't be surprised that neither of them still are (they are in their 30s now). Protestants have been duping themselves quite handily without any help from RCs. It can be amusing, when it isn't dangerous.